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Star Wars - Episode VII - The Force Awakens, Official Thread
?Rorshach?
post Nov 29 2014, 02:45 AM
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Yeah, I know we were all sort of using RJ's thread, but fuck it. I don't want to look at any leaked this or thats or concept art and shit. Lets use this one to talk about the movie itself and the other one for potential spoilers and developments of the like.

Obviously the teaser was fucking killer.

My favorite part is the way that the rebellion has obviously developed into the superior force who can afford to develop advanced weapons and technologies (i.e. the new xwings) while the empire is struggling and left with decades old vehicles (the classic tie fighters).

I also love that they're obviously trying to sell me this astro droid as "the new R2!"...and I totally can't help but smile every time I hit "play again" and he rolls onto the screen.

...okay fuck it, it's the falcon. My favorite part is obviously the falcon.

My least favorite part? I fucking hate gimmick lightsabers. I can't help it; every time I hear someone talking about how cool xyz lightsaber fight is/are, I immediately write them off. That's not what these movies are about.

Though, I was joking with my buddy tonight about how funny I think it would be if that particular sith was just like "dude, papa skywalker lost a hand and ended up on walking life support, Luke lost a hand and almost died hanging from scaffolding in the clouds...fuck it, I'm putting on a laser guard"


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sellout
post Nov 29 2014, 03:28 AM
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I know you were joking but maybe that sith really is just being cautious by having the guards. If the empire are running scared and the sith are all but non-existent, maybe he haphazardly put his saber together in secret without really knowing what he was doing. The way it sputters and cackles might be a sign of that too. That theory is from the internet but it makes some sense to me.
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sonofaresiii
post Nov 29 2014, 04:55 AM
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There are a couple fan theories about the lightsaber, but point being I agree an I am so sick of gimmick lightsabers. It ruined the EU. Lightsabers are lightsabers and that's it. The double-edged one was kind of cool but even that was pushing it. Although it's not like, killing anything for me. They want to throw in a cool looking lightsaber... whatever, I guess. I can't see it impacting the story much. Hell at this point we don't even know if it really is a gimmick lightsaber.

Yes the trailer was awesome. The Falcon. How fucking cool was that? It wasn't just there, it was badass. I'm not sure how well the clean/modern/updated look is going to feel for me. Probably I'll love it. I'm interested to see how it works with all the practicals/old run down stuff in the movie. It's not just swathed in cgi like the prequels, but it's definitely a much cleaner, less rugged look. I think that's just a factor of how much filming technology has progressed since '77.

I think it's interesting that storm troopers are still around, I don't know if we already knew that or I just forgot it or what, but i think it indicates that the imperial aren't just a ragtag group, they've still got at least somewhat trained military/militia. They've still got a whole operation, not like the rebels who had, like, maybe some helmets if they could find them. And some jumpsuits.

Or the alliance has co-opted stormtroopers/armor.

Anyway, I'm super excited for this movie. I don't know if it will be the amazing masterpiece or whatever we all want it to be, still making people's favorite movie lists forty years from now... maybe it will, maybe not but I do think it'll be a fun movie either way.


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QUOTE (The Virgin Mary @ Aug 29 2010, 10:43 PM) [snapback]367127[/snapback]
Also, while European women aren't usually fat, most smoke, which is a huge turnoff for me personally. But really, what the fuck...it's just a one night stand anyways, so who cares at that point.


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sonofaresiii
post Nov 29 2014, 04:59 AM
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QUOTE (sellout @ Nov 29 2014, 03:28 AM) *
I know you were joking but maybe that sith really is just being cautious by having the guards. If the empire are running scared and the sith are all but non-existent, maybe he haphazardly put his saber together in secret without really knowing what he was doing. The way it sputters and cackles might be a sign of that too. That theory is from the internet but it makes some sense to me.


That's not the point though. Well I dunno if it's dylan's point, but the way I see it, if they could have made lightsabers better for Jedi/Sith to use, they would have. They didn't. These things have been around for centuries and they've already decided a single blade is the best way to make a "more elegant weapon." If lightsaber handguards were a useful thing for Jedi/Sith to have, and were possible to make, they'd have already done it. Since they didn't, it really feels like they're just trying to cram it in for the sake of oneupsmanship.


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QUOTE (The Virgin Mary @ Aug 29 2010, 10:43 PM) [snapback]367127[/snapback]
Also, while European women aren't usually fat, most smoke, which is a huge turnoff for me personally. But really, what the fuck...it's just a one night stand anyways, so who cares at that point.


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SkankinLibrarian
post Nov 29 2014, 05:15 AM
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Terrible. Just terrible.


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Looks dumb and cheesey. Seriously this is going to me average at best.


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Klonny
post Nov 29 2014, 11:16 AM
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No one should do any of this


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I can't wait for my villain-of-the-episodes so I can buy new Star Wars™ action figures!


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monkeyman
post Nov 29 2014, 01:35 PM
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it was pretty meh. Can't say I care too much at the moment.


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QUOTE (JOE RULES @ Feb 3 2008, 11:02 PM) *
Some of you straight edge assholes need to chill the fuck out and smoke a joint.

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?Rorshach?
post Nov 29 2014, 04:02 PM
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QUOTE (sonofaresiii @ Nov 29 2014, 03:59 AM) *
That's not the point though. Well I dunno if it's dylan's point, but the way I see it, if they could have made lightsabers better for Jedi/Sith to use, they would have. They didn't. These things have been around for centuries and they've already decided a single blade is the best way to make a "more elegant weapon." If lightsaber handguards were a useful thing for Jedi/Sith to have, and were possible to make, they'd have already done it. Since they didn't, it really feels like they're just trying to cram it in for the sake of oneupsmanship.


This is sort of it, but for me it's really just the fact that in the original films, lightsaber fights weren't about being crazy action scenes (or at least, that wasn't what made them cool). In the first three movies, every lightsaber battle was really just a vehicle for huge and dramatic plot development.

In A New Hope, the only lightsaber battle is Obi Wan and Vader casually touching sabers ever 20 or 30 seconds...and then Ben martyring himself to teach Luke his final lesson.

In Empire, Luke and Vader play hide and go seek around Cloud City for half an hour...while Vader delivers a speech that leads up to quite possibly the most epic plot twist and most quotable line in the history of cinema.

In Jedi, Luke is taunted by temptation and nearly succumbs in a 2 minute violent outburst...before sparing his father at presumably the cost of his own life and in effect carrying him from darkness and saving the entire galaxy from the clutches of an evil dictator.

In Phantom Menace, there is a bad guy...so they have to fight him in a monster choreographed laser sword battle.

In Clones...thousands of nameless characters fight shit with laser swords.

In Sith, this dude Anakin has known for like a month lies to him...so he fights his best friend for 30 minutes over an active volcano.

My point is just that what made these films awesome wasn't ZOMG SPACESHIPS AND LASERS AND SWORD AND...

It was the story that's set against all of those things.

I don't give a shit how or why this nameless new sith got a fucking claymore lightsaber, what I care about is how (s)he connects with our heroes. So maybe this dumb new lightsaber doesn't matter at all, but if screen time is wasted watching this person build it, or talking about why it is the way that it is, or really if it's ever addressed at all, to me that will be a weak point in the film.


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sonofaresiii
post Nov 29 2014, 04:14 PM
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I get what you're saying, though I think action sequences have their place and can be cool without being a detriment to the story. I think, like you said, in the prequels the story wasn't really there to back them up.

But I think we're both kind of hitting on the same point, that lightsabers are meant to be, and this is obviously a direct quote, "a more elegant weapon for a more civilized age." Jedi/Sith don't carry lightsabers so they can go around wailing on people. They carry them for elegant solutions to conflict, like what we saw in the OT.

But that said, I'm all for a rogue Jedi/Sith being like "fuck elegance let's duke it out." If that's the way the story goes. I don't think Vader was ever that guy in the OT, but I could see a brash young Sith going that route. But like you said, the story needs to be there to back it up.

And so, back to my original point... if they had found that claymore lightsabers, or lightsaber whips, or giant lightsaber tanks that fire lightsaber shells, were the best way to achieve their ends, they'd have already done that. They all decided a single blade lightsaber was the more elegant solution that worked for their purposes. It's not very realistic for me to believe "Oh man, a lightsaber with lightsaber handguards? That'd make being a Jedi/Sith so much easier! Why didn't I ever think of that?"

But then, it's not exactly killing the trailer for me. Maybe there's a very good story reason for that guy to be like "Lightsaber handguards, yup, that's what I need." Like I said, maybe it's a brash young Sith that's like "Fuck the old elegant ways, I'm here to fuck shit up."


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QUOTE (The Virgin Mary @ Aug 29 2010, 10:43 PM) [snapback]367127[/snapback]
Also, while European women aren't usually fat, most smoke, which is a huge turnoff for me personally. But really, what the fuck...it's just a one night stand anyways, so who cares at that point.


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?Rorshach?
post Dec 1 2014, 05:46 PM
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lawl


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SkankinLibrarian
post Dec 1 2014, 06:22 PM
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Terrible. Just terrible.


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QUOTE (?Rorshach? @ Dec 1 2014, 04:46 PM) *


lawl

this movie looks significantly better than the actual one.


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sonofaresiii
post Dec 2 2014, 12:12 PM
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quiet, you


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QUOTE (The Virgin Mary @ Aug 29 2010, 10:43 PM) [snapback]367127[/snapback]
Also, while European women aren't usually fat, most smoke, which is a huge turnoff for me personally. But really, what the fuck...it's just a one night stand anyways, so who cares at that point.


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sellout
post Dec 14 2014, 10:36 AM
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So these don't count as spoilers. Just names of the characters unveiled in a creative way:







And somehow BB-8 isn't completely CGI. Mark Hamill said so in an interview.
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sonofaresiii
post Dec 14 2014, 04:09 PM
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I guess it's a spoiler if you legitimately thought that guy was darth revan, but that's pretty stupid.


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QUOTE (The Virgin Mary @ Aug 29 2010, 10:43 PM) [snapback]367127[/snapback]
Also, while European women aren't usually fat, most smoke, which is a huge turnoff for me personally. But really, what the fuck...it's just a one night stand anyways, so who cares at that point.


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?Rorshach?
post Dec 14 2014, 09:19 PM
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yeah dude, hamill was saying they let him drive bb8 around the effects studio. there at least IS a totally practical version of him, even if he wasn't used 100% of the time.

...and that rules so fucking hard.


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sonofaresiii
post Dec 14 2014, 10:50 PM
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Fun story, apparently there were more models used in the prequel than the ot. I just think that's a neat fact to point out when talking about practically v cgi in star wars.


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QUOTE (The Virgin Mary @ Aug 29 2010, 10:43 PM) [snapback]367127[/snapback]
Also, while European women aren't usually fat, most smoke, which is a huge turnoff for me personally. But really, what the fuck...it's just a one night stand anyways, so who cares at that point.


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davey1212k
post Dec 14 2014, 11:14 PM
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cue the discussion.

edit: this post doesn't really add to anything, I'm just stating that I want to know more people's ideas. i've heard you people discuss practicality vs. CGI before so I know you can really get into it.


so far the promo stuff has my attention that this could have the same "feel" as the originals, but it's still early on.

This post has been edited by davey1212k: Dec 14 2014, 11:17 PM


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sonofaresiii
post Dec 14 2014, 11:26 PM
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Well, I mean I don't think the quality of a movie hangs on whether it uses practical effects or cgi. Depends on the quality of either. I don't think there's anything intrinsic about star wars that demands practicals, and the point above about models v cgi in the two trilogies was really just to help illustrate that.

It's the story, man. Draw the lightsabers in, cgi them in, whatever, so long as they're there for a reason and not just because it looks cool.


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QUOTE (The Virgin Mary @ Aug 29 2010, 10:43 PM) [snapback]367127[/snapback]
Also, while European women aren't usually fat, most smoke, which is a huge turnoff for me personally. But really, what the fuck...it's just a one night stand anyways, so who cares at that point.


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?Rorshach?
post Dec 15 2014, 12:45 AM
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QUOTE (sonofaresiii @ Dec 14 2014, 09:50 PM) *
Fun story, apparently there were more models used in the prequel than the ot. I just think that's a neat fact to point out when talking about practically v cgi in star wars.


I mean, to be fair, there's also a lot more stuff in the prequels than the ot.

Like...a LOT more stuff.

It's kind of like pointing out there were more murders in 2013 than there were in the year 1200. It's true that out of 7 billion people there were more murderers (and in turn murderees) than there were when there were like 450 million people on the planet...but Ghengis Khan also wiped out like 10% of the world's population.

I'm on a tangent though.

The point is, while I ultimately agree with Alex, part of what keeps me so in love with Star Wars 20 years after my first viewing is how blown away I am with so much of what they did visually. Sure there's a paw that turns into a hoof and a hammer head shark drinking a martini, but there are also some rich and gorgeous worn spaceship exteriors and guns that you could seriously convince me can shoot lasers.

So besides the fact that I just honestly cannot say I have ever seen cgi that made my draw drop like the practical stuff in Star Wars (or Day of the Dead or Aliens or even shit like Maniac), I also just feel like CGI heavy movies tend to sort of take away from the movie or distract from the plot or...something. I don't know. Maybe this is just an extension of my previous point, but I just really can't say I've ever caught a super CGI heavy flick that was also super thick with plot. I guess "correlation doesn't imply causation" or whatever but fuck you.

Anyway yeah, I would just way rather see a shitty practical effect than a good CGI one. That said though, so long as I get a Star Wars with half the heart, I don't care if it's animated by 9 year olds.


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sonofaresiii
post Dec 15 2014, 09:00 AM
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Well first off, you're right it's not a fair one to one comparison, I just want to point it out for all the people who say the prequels only had cgi which made it terrible. They did have a lot of cgi, but they ALSO had practicals, and it was still awful. Also, the ot had cgi! They fucking pioneered special effects! Having cgi didn't make the prequels terrible, having practicals didn't make the ot awesome. They each had a little of both.

But as to your second point... I really, really really really think what's happening is this trap of "I hate most of the cgi I see" and the reason for that is... you only "see" cgi when it's bad. You'd be fucking SHOCKED at the amount of cgi and green screen and special effects in... pretty much any movie or TV show released within the past ten years. Every amazing landscape, cool vista, awesome fight sequence, rad action scene you've seen has been cgi. How fucking cool was it seeing spiderman flip twirl and dodge through the traffic of nyc? Obviously they didn't really find a guy who could shoot webs and swing around the city. That was cgi, and it was fucking cool. You just don't think of it right away because it wasn't bad cgi. And I don't know about you, but in spidey 2, yeah, my jaw fucking dropped seeing those aerial acrobatics through cars and around buildings.

Transformers? Giant robot monsters that destroy the city? Bad cgi. Didn't wow any of us. That's what most of us think when we think cgi.

You remember The Gladiator? Bet you wouldn't think every cgi artist in the industry was outraged that that movie didn't win an Oscar for cgi. But it's not like they flew over to Rome and restored the entire city to look like it did thousands of years ago. That entire movie was cgi. But it didn't win an Oscar for the same reason you don't think of it as being Oscar worthy. It was great cgi, so you'd never notice it.

So anyway, I guess my point is that both the prequels and the ot had a fair mix of practicals and cgi, but we think using cgi in the prequels is super shitty because it was bad cgi, and used poorly from a story standpoint. Nobody really wanted to see Yoda hopping around throwing chairs and shit, so when we saw animated Yoda doing it, we think "man cgi sucks." When what we should have been thinking was "man, yoda's supposed to be awesome and wise and stoic, not a fucking ninja."

Im ranting. Sorry. I just think cgi can absolutely be as cool as practicals, it's just another tool to help make your story. You can use the tool well, or you can use it poorly.

This post has been edited by sonofaresiii: Dec 15 2014, 09:04 AM


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QUOTE (The Virgin Mary @ Aug 29 2010, 10:43 PM) [snapback]367127[/snapback]
Also, while European women aren't usually fat, most smoke, which is a huge turnoff for me personally. But really, what the fuck...it's just a one night stand anyways, so who cares at that point.


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